RE: The Amazing Shrinking Women…Roles [From Squeetus.com]

March 12th, 2010 at 6:21 pm by --KALEB NATION--

Shannon Hale, a well-known author of ten novels, posted an interesting article on her blog earlier today which brings up some points that have long been debated regarding the disappearance (or actually, lack of appearance) of strong female leads and characters in books and film. Shannon notes in her post:

Here are a few of the highest grossing animated movies of all time:

Ice Age
Toy Story
Madagascar
Shrek
Finding Nemo
Up
Kung Fu Panda
Monsters, Inc.
Cars
Ratatouille

[...] look at their male:female ratios. It’s kind of shocking what we just accept as normal. Can you imagine a reverse? An Ice Age-type movie where every character (except one who dies at the beginning) is female? The same goes for Up. [...] [L]ook at the ratio overall of named characters – I count it 10:2. Imagine a movie with 10 girls and 2 boys! [...] I think in part this goes back to the “girls aren’t funny” belief. [Read the full post]

Hit him with an oar and we will laugh

I commented on her blog, but figured as most of my blog readers are also writers, it would be of interest, so I’ll paraphrase my response here. What Shannon says is very true  –  strong female lead characters, and even minor roles, are lacking in modern media. But unfortunately, it will be a long time before anything is done about it.

To account for the lack of minor female characters, I think a lot of this stems from the ‘girls aren’t funny’ aspect that Shannon mentioned, which is sadly held by most media. For example: it’s totally acceptable in film to see men slip on banana peels, run into walls, knock their heads on drawers and get punched and beaten comically. Take most father figures in Disney movies.

But for some reason, if you replace this comic-relief male character with a woman, it’s uncomfortable and doesn’t come across as funny at all. Imagine watching a female character (even in an animated film) being punched, whacked with an oar, hitting her head on furniture, or getting her teeth knocked in accordion-style. All of this happens to male characters in Disney films and it’s hilarious. But by nature of our society, it’s just not funny the other way around — unless the female character is portrayed as horrendously ugly, stupidly masculine, or outrageously annoying, in which case it’s suddenly acceptable again, but uncomfortable even then.

The same goes for female leads. I’ve said this in blogs before, but there is a reason why in toy stores, there are 2 or 3 ‘pink aisles’, surrounded by a dozen or more ‘blue’ aisles. In this society girls will play with toys for boys, but boys just won’t play with toys for girls. It doesn’t mean this is right: it just means that this is the way our society is built.

It’s really a question of sales. If that’s ‘just the way things are’, what company will spend millions of dollars to try to change it? Corporations and movie studios are not built to change a society. They are built to make money. Changing society does not make them more money. They don’t care what they have to do to sell stuff: they just sell it. It is for this reason Kim Kardashian is suddenly selling salads for Carl’s Jr.

Take a look at all the big film franchises: Harry Potter, Percy Jackson, Transformers, Star Wars, The Matrix, etc. Even the Twilight films, despite the main character being Bella, are almost entirely centered on Edward and Jacob. Now look at the franchises with female leads: Lemony Snicket (somewhat a female lead)? Catwoman (totally failed)? I can’t even think of any franchise that actually made money that doesn’t have a male center character. Look at the list and be shocked.

As writers, I think we know and recognize this imbalance, but we also know that it is impossible for us to change an entire society. It’s too deeply entrenched in ‘the way things are’. So it does come down to money, unfortunately. If people don’t want to read/watch it, we can’t write it, because we can’t sell it. Most writers don’t  get paid 6- or 7-figures a book, and thus don’t have the freedom of trying to be different. And so we begrudgingly go on following the norms, because we really need groceries this week.

(Added: I think it needs to be pointed out that this blog post isn’t meant to show a sign of defeat in the industry. There are many authors like Tamora Pierce who write AMAZING novels with lead female characters (I grew up reading these books by her). I’m just trying to point out just how ridiculously imbalanced this is, but how it should not be seen entirely as the fault of the writer, because writers are really only creating stories that readers will read. If no one or few people will read it, no matter how good the book is, the author is regarded as a failure, because the publishing industry is driven on sales. If we don’t sell enough books, then publishers stop publishing us. Until this society changes, authors and producers will just keep on making films catering to what the public wants, and very rarely step outside those boundaries. It is basically a giant monster that keeps feeding itself and getting bigger, and that no one really has the power to kill.)

I welcome comments below, especially from other writers who recognize this trend, or have ideas on how we can improve.



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  • Arielle
    These blog posts were both really interesting.

    As a quick note, upon asking about lead female roles in movies, the first one that came to mind was Lyra from Golden Compass. Albeit, the ratio is still off, but in terms of her role, she is quite kick butt. :-)

    It's funny, but I think writers have already addressed the imbalance, and created one of their own...sort of. If you look at the teen bestsellers on the Barnes and Noble website, the vast majority of them, at least in the top fifty, are books with female protagonists. Girls have a hard time finding big blockbusters with female leads, while guys (at least from my brother's experience) have issues finding books. There is a huge representation of male figures in fantasy and sci-fi novels, but other than that, there isn't a whole lot out there in the realm of realistic, or historical fiction that has guy protagonists.

    What Disney has to realize is that they *have* indeed managed a funny, kick-butt, awesome-possum female character before in Mulan. Mulan did suffer her fair share of trips, tumbles, and slapstick humor (think the training camp scene) in a genuinely amusing way, and she was neither "horrendously ugly, stupidly masculine, or outrageously annoying." And the movie was pretty darn successful, if I remember correctly.
  • Lyra is a PERFECT example, which I completely forgot about. In both the book and in the film, she was an awesome character that even guys had no problem with reading about or watching in a movie.
  • KatBender
    Both you and Shannon Hale made a lot of excellent points, Kaleb. I agree with both of you, in that it's an unfortunate reality that will continue to exist as long as it makes more money than the alternative. I also agree with your statement that society will have to change before stories with female characters will make more money than those that have only male characters. However...

    I also think this is one of those cases where writers have the power to help bring a positive change to our society, if they choose to do so. They can't do it alone, of course, but one of the most amazing things about stories is that they can change the minds of those who read them. If more authors (and many great examples have already been listed in the comments) choose to write novels about fascinating and funny characters that are BOTH male and female, then gradually, society as a whole will begin to recognize that female characters can be just as interesting as male ones. That's why I think authors are in a great position to help change this situation, because they create some of the media in question.

    Still, you bring up a good point about the "pink aisles." Right now, boys are reluctant to read and watch stories about female leads. I think that's one reason why authors should try to write stories that include both genders in interesting roles, even if they still have a male lead. Personally, that's why I feel franchises like Harry Potter have been a step in the right direction... At least they include smart female characters who get to do more than sit in a tower and be rescued. And the boys who love these stories still get exposed to some great female characters in the process. It's a small but important change, and I think that it's one that authors can make without sacrificing their profits, seeing as how J.K. Rowling isn't exactly hurting for cash. In that way, Kaleb, I think you've done very well-- Astara and Adi in particular are excellent examples of interesting female characters.

    Also, I don't think boys really mind reading about female characters, as long as they're interesting and get to do something more than sit in a castle, wear a tiara, and talk about their princes. If anything, I think boys are more put off by the insistence on the part of publishers and producers that stories about girls are always so over-the-top girly-- I don't blame boys for not wanting to get near a Barbie movie dripping in pink and sparkles, but a lot of girls I know hated them, too. That's why they all watched Transformers cartoons when they were little-- the girls' stories were silly and boring! Clearly something is wrong there. Maybe the real problem is that we need GOOD stories about girls, not just "girly stories." Maybe then the boys won't mind watching them as well.
  • KatBender
    Also, I apologize for the essay! I didn't mean to flood your comments page like that... I guess that proves your post was very thought-provoking. Kudos to both you and Shannon Hale for bringing up the issue!
  • Vanessa
    Strong male characters and weak female ones, that should be. *head desk*

    It should be also noted that I do have faith in some writers. For instance, Scott Westerfield has written a multitude of strong female leading characters, and in many of his novels the gender ratio is 50:50 or similar. While he is a rarity, it is proof enough that your characters do not have to be male for you to succeed, and I commend him for not following the norms and for doing so well.
  • Vanessa
    Unfortunately, it is exactly this defeatist attitude which causes these ineqalities.

    While I understand that you aren't advocating this particular inequality, it is a cause and effect relationship, and while this attitude that we must "begrudgingly go on following the norms" just because society dictates it continues, nothing is going to change.

    We as a society are still sexist, even in Western culture. Women have had to fight hard for the rights which we have today, yet there is still a gender inequality. This extends all the way into the media, and in a way is perpertuated by it. This extends deeper than "girls aren't funny"- it is because people aren't aware of the inequality that exists, and therefore no one feels the need to do anything about it.

    To achieve equality, we should not be backing down and taking this. As you and Shannon stated, strong female characters are seriously lacking in modern media, but the message that something needs to change is not going to get through to people if writers continue to perpetuate stereotypes and write strong female characters. It will not necessarily be "a long time before anything is done about it"; all it takes are a few strong people to keep fighting for equality and for the gender imbalance to be shifted. To start this, there needs to be a change of the defeatist attitude.
  • Great food for thought! I really hadn't taken the time to notice the off balance between the two sexes. This week, I have been thinking about how far our society has come in the last few generations. Having a sick week, I had a chance to catch up on some movie watching. I saw the BBC "Emma" and two "Pride and Prejudice" movies from 2005 & 1995. After getting lost in a world that took place so long ago and then jumping back into 2010, it's hard not to notice how society has certainly shifted in so many ways. Although the main characters of these movies were women, the women in these stories weren't the norm for that time, they were strong and fought the norm, but they still lived in a society where men were the head of the home. As stated earlier, when it comes to romance, woman are easily seen as the leads in such movies, we have been conditioned.

    In pondering the topic of discussion, I think the agree with biggest inequality is most obviously seen in action stories. As a society, I think it's hard for men to see a strong woman because it takes away the part that they most enjoy, the feminine side. As a woman, I certainly enjoy seeing a woman kick some bad guy butt!! It's empowering to see since woman, by nature, are physically weaker. One of my all time favorite TV shows was Alias. The writers were able to create a strong woman who not only could work successfully independent, but they were able to keep her feminine at the same time. As for a movie, I can't think of an example off the top of my head. Certainly outnumbered there. Tomb Raider was mentioned, but not seeing the movie, I can't make a comment on it.

    It would seem in media, that our society is still caught up in stereotypical behavior for leads in certain types of stories/movies. Mostly seeing men for action, woman for romance. With time, as with most changes in society when a generational norm is concerned, a shift can and will be made. Consumers are always looking for something new and exciting and with this desire, change will be made. To make a drastic shift, it wouldn't be excepted, but a slow, gradual change will cause a shift with time.

    What I have observed, which I know is only one person's opinion, is the dumbing down of men. Don't get me wrong, I am all for showing the strength in women, that they can do all a man can do. But I don't like to see it in the light that a man must be shown, barely evolved from cavemen, in order for woman to seem intellectually superior. In using the before mentioned cartoons, "The Incredibles" the wife was the smarter one who knew what was best for the family while dad was in the dark. In "Finding Nemo" if dad hadn't been knocked unconscious, mom may have survived like Nemo did. In Shrek, well, he wasn't the smartest out of the couple either. As a society, to have a male and female lead, equal in intelligence, the man naturally will seem the mightier of the two because we have been conditioned for generations to see this. With time, the view can/will shift, but it will have to be gradual to become the new norm.

  • MyChucksandI
    I've always written a male lead character (im a girl) and have never really thought anything of it. Your post Kaleb, was very well written. I am not published so I don't know how things work, but maybe most writers don't notice their lack of female characters. You asked how writer's could change the problem, why not have the "mentor" in the fantasy books to be female, or the really smart tech/ weapons person to be a female. I think writers should slowly putting female characters in a role that would stereotypicaly be a males.

    -Chiara (MyChucksandI)
  • nicoleface
    so why are we bringing up this discussion if "people don’t want to read/watch it, we can’t write it, because we can’t sell it"? we're just gonna bring it up, say we can't do anything about it and move on? if you're going to say that writers aren't in the business of changing things, just selling things, then that's your opinion. but i know plenty of writers who write to change things, to be creative without boundaries. if you can only stay within the bounds of male centric, lack of female characters, how can you be creative? if it's really only about the money then why doesn't everyone just write twilight/harry potter knock offs and call it a day?
  • No, I'm not presenting this as right, I said that many times in the blog post. I'm just saying this is unfortunately the way it is. People like Tamora Pierce write amazing novels with female lead characters. But until society changes, books like that will never sell as well as Harry Potter, Percy Jackson or Eragon. It's a whole change of society that has to happen first. And just because writers and film producers tend to make films with male characters doesn't make them all wrong, because it's just how the society has formed in that direction, and they know that is how they get paid.
  • Kateydid3
    You have a good point. I really hope that someday we can change the male-dominant media to one of more equality. A lot of little girls these days have self-esteem issues, and how are they going to learn to be proud and confident if all they see in the media are proud and confident MEN? I'm sure a lot of people take their role models from the media, and little girls should have strong female role models to look up to.
    As a novice female writer, obviously I relate best to female characters, therefore I write female characters more often than males. That isn't to say that I don't write male characters; I do, quite often. However, I think it's important to portray women as strong and independent without ignoring the fact that women as well as men have flaws. I try to write my female characters as all people should be: powerful and self-confident, even when they make mistakes. I don't try to pretend that my writing alone will change the media, but I'd like to think that if I ever get a book published someday, it might help at least one little girl feel better about herself. If I help just one person, I will consider the book a success.
    Despite the current lack of females in media, I have a good outlook for this change. From what I can see, strong female leads are getting more popular in literature. I can take a look at my bookshelf now and guarantee that almost half the books there are centered on a female main character. Whether this is due to my personal interests is debatable, but I think it bodes well for the future.
  • My mind
    I read an article about this in the paper a few days ago. It said more less the same, except that it congratulated Kathryn Bigelow (The Hurt locker) for winning Best Director during the Academy Awards.

    I think this issue has been going on for a long time and, honestly, I don't believe it will stop at some point. Preference for men over women is perfectly obvious in, like you've already pointed out, the big film franchises.

    Even though the main characters are men, I'm glad that there are some authors out there who are more than happy to give women a chance of, not only being the "damsel in distress", but to actually participate in the important events of the novel (i.e Hermione Granger, Susan and Lucy Pevensie, Annabeth.) Now, I by no means refer to the movie adaptations, because I think we all know perfectly that there is no way a novel can be compared to its movie. There are much more probabilities of a women taken part of the action in the novel, than in the movie.

    Even you, Kaleb, in your novel "Bran Hambric" have a boy for a protagonist. I won't say that because you are a guy and it's easier to relate -How come Jo Rowling wrote "Harry Potter", and Scott Westerfeld "Uglies", then?- but I think there most be a logical reason, at least, for you.

    Society has always thought about a prince fighting the big, dangerous dragon, while the scared princess runs away to a secure place. I can only recall a couple of sagas with women as protagonist:

    *Uglies, by Scott Westerfeld (Tally Youngblood) -to be made a movie.
    *The Chronicles of Narnia, by C.S Lewis (Lucy Pevensie)- made a movie

    The most famous movies that have girls for main protagonists are -what a surprise- Disney movies. Disney, who enjoys putting us the part of the pale princess who has been poisoned, who has fell in a years-lasting sleep, etc.

    As a female writer myself, I can express my disgust openly about this topic. I try to write about boys and girls equally, without distinction. I love doing both, and I can only hope that some day this can finally end and give us a break.
  • We actually discussed this in my sociology class last week! My teacher said that it was because girls don't really care about what they watch, as long as it interests them while boys won't watch anything with more female characters because it will be seen as 'girly' and that is like the ultimate no-no for boys, I guess....
  • Catherine
    I think a great exception to this general trend of absent female protagonists is "The Hunger Games". I would also offer up "Leviathan", although the female protagonist does have to dress up as a boy and half of the story follows the male protagonist.
    You're right in saying that "Twilight" doesn't count as a female-centric franchise. The way I see it, the catalyst and the driving force behind the conflict are generated by the male characters (aka Edward, Jacob). In "The Hunger Games", on the other hand, the female protagonist makes her own choices that lead to the conflict of the story. Her motivation has nothing to do with being intrigued by or attracted to some mystery man. The romance in the story is not the central focus.
    The trend of YA and teen stories where entirely ordinary female protagonists have their lives turned upside down by the appearance of some powerful, dark, and brooding guy is, in my opinion, problematic.
    Another thing to ponder: why are male-centric stories so much more successful in books and movies, but not as blatantly in television? Shows like Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Gilmore Girls (I'm sure there are more but my mind is blanking) have achieved immense success despite having strong casts of female characters.
    It's an interesting topic to ponder.
  • Unfortunately, this is what society had deemed as normal. I wonder though, who made it this way? Who says that women can't play lead or comical roles. I mean, if we follow the norm then are we not just condoning it? I have no idea how to solve this problem other than to go against the status quote. And I also think it's important that we examine ourselves. Would you or I want to watch a movie with a strong female role? Or with a comical female role? Food for thought I guess
  • Thanks for the comments, Kaleb. The reason I wanted to blog about the lack of female characters in animated movies is because whenever I talk about it with female friends, I often hear, "I'd never realized that before." I think, first, we have to be aware. And your comedy violence against women note is well taken, but there are other forms of humor. Dori in Finding Nemo is genuinely funny. Any character Bonnie Hunt voices is great. I can think of dozens of actresses and comediennes who make me laugh out loud without the physical humor. I think the prejudice against girls being funny goes wider than that.
  • Great point, Dori in Finding Nemo was really funny. I'm more so pointing at that as one example, instead of all-encompassing. You're article's great at opening a big can that's usually left closed, so there's probably dozens of examples :D
  • Thanks! I was thinking about your point. We've got a weird tug and pull with feminism here. There's that respect for women that prevents a female Kung Fu Panda, for example, and yet demands females be treated equally, and yet prevents boys from taking part in anything "girly." Girls have more choices now--they can pursue girl stuff or traditionally boy stuff, but the reverse isn't true for boys. And yet girls are still kept out of the adventures, in movies anyway, while the boys go have all the fun and laughs. It makes no sense! It's all craziness! I love what you do, Kaleb. i love the Twilight Guy. I think you are a mighty force for good. Use your powers wisely, my child.
  • nicolegr
    Hmm, you both have good points, but I think you're missing an actress like Angelina Jolie. Look at the Tomb Raider movies for example, I'm not too sure how popular they are but they've had numerous video games made out of the movies, and I even think the film is an adaption of a book (That's the best example I have while I'm this tired). And romantic comedies, I hardly ever see a male as the main character, sure there are the love interests, but it's for women about women.

    The world's still very sexist towards women, I don't know if that'll ever change. Anyway, that's just my opinion but I don't think we need to worry about females being completely thrown out of movies, books, etc any time soon.
  • Gabriella
    Wow, I never really thought about that stuff until now...hmm, weird.
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